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how do you use the GPS to get the box?

You enter the coordinates provided for a geocache, and tell the GPS receiver to lead you to that spot. There are several display modes in a GPS; the one to select is the one that has an arrow that points in the direction of the geocache and displays the distance in a corner.

Note that the arrow only points in the correct direction when you are moving and have the top of the screen oriented toward the direction you're moving. The GPS usually doesn't have a compass built in (some better models do nowadays), the only way it can provide a direction is in relation to the direction you're moving.

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And if you can only get within 30 ft of the box, how do you find it?

Set the GPS receiver down and look around while thinking to yourself, "If I wanted to hide an ammo box right here, where would I put it?" It's usually not too difficult, but sometimes the hiders are devious. If nothing else works, they sometimes provide an encoded hint that you can decypher on the spot.

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What kind of GPS should you use? I'm on a kinda tight budget, so this'll be a Christmas present hopefully. Not the cheapest one, but not the most expensive either.

Sorry to have to tell you this, but if you're going to use it for geocaching, the GPS receiver you want is the very cheapest one you can find. They all will point you to the cache; all the bells and whistles (voice, mapping, color display, compass, etc., etc., etc.) just get in the way.

Of course, most people want to use their GPS receivers for other stuff besides geocaching, and therefore they want other features. The voice is nice while you're driving, you don't want to be having to stare at a little screen while driving, it's worse than using a cell phone. The mapping feature is also nice while driving, it tells you where the roads go. The roads are just another distraction while trying to find a geocache, though.

I highly recommend the Lowrance iFiinder GO. I'll list its pros and cons. Pros first:

* excellent sensitivity, gets a clear signal even under dense tree cover.

* 32MB memory with built-in maps of North America. They don't show minor roads, but they do show all highways and bodies of water.

* Holds 1000 waypoints.

* Holds a 17-character name for each waypoint. Important to look for, since geocaching.com has gone to 7-character waypoint names and a Garmin eTrex only holds 6 characters, truncates the last and then overwrites waypoints with the same name.

* The batteries last simply forever. Officially it's something like 40 hours. Unofficially I can tell you that they last perhaps four times as long as they last in a Garmin eTrex.

* Costs only about $75.

Cons:

* Cannot edit maps. You'll need a higher-priced Lowrance for that.

* The screen is the same size as a Garmin eTrex, but it has twice the resolution. That sounds good, but what it means is that all the lettering displayed on the screen is smaller. You'll need your reading glasses.

* Is just a bit slow, as though there's an old 286 processor inside or something. When you're doing a search for all the nearby waypoints, for example, you'll have to wait for a few seconds for the list to come up.

* Haven't run into this myself yet, but I understand the customer support is horrible. By comparison, customer support for Garmin products is excellent.

I've also owned a Garmin eTrex, and compared to the iFinder Go it:

* Costs about $25 more.

* Has no mapping at all.

* Goes through batteries like there's no tomorrow.

* Is constantly losing signal under tree cover.

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what are the trackable items such as the geo coins?

Geocoins are a type of "travel bug", which is an item with a tracking number that you can pick up in one geocache and drop off at another. They must be logged, logging is not optional as with hitchhikers. Since the computer knows exactly where every geocache is, it's easy to keep track of exactly how many miles a travel bug moves. Many have tens of thousands of miles on them.

The variety and artwork of geocoins is simply astounding. But you can also make a travel bug out o just about anything by purchasing a travel bug tag and attaching it. You can end up with pictures of the object taken all over the world.

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Do alot of people do both this and lbing?

I do, but it seems most people choose one or the other. Dunno why, they're both enjoyable and by doing both there's that many more hidden things out there to look for!

There are something like 473,000 geocaches out there at last count. That's plenty. You'll need to learn to be selective about which ones you hunt, since a great many are simply a waste of time. First suggestion: Simply ignore all micros. There are a few good micros out there, but the vast majority are horrible, a complete waste of your time, and they're often miserably difficult to find to boot. You'll be happier skipping them.

Second, read the cache listing and the last five find logs before choosing to hunt. If the listing sounds like it's at some boring place or the finders sound less than enthusiastic about the find, skip it. If the hide is any good at all, a couple of those finders will have said so.

My husband and I will geocache sometimes while were letterboxing, (but I MUCH prefer letterboxing)! You can get a decent GPS at Wal Mart for about $120.00. We have a boat, so we already had the GPS when we discovered this other type of "hunting". The clue will have GPS coordinates to the "cache"- you just type them in, and follow the arrows. As far as only getting within 30 feet of a box- that depends on tree cover and cloud cover. You can actually get within about 2 feet if it's a nice day. There is a logbook, but no stamp. Some boxes have trinkets, some do not. As far as the trackable items- we have found two. We just basically log them on the geocache website, then plant them somewhere else. Again, there is NO comparison between this and letterboxing, (in my opinion). But, we like to take road trips on our motorcycle to find letterboxes- and when we know were going to a nice park, it's fun to grab some geocaches also, (it let's us discover more of the park).

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Sorry to have to tell you this, but if you're going to use it for geocaching, the GPS receiver you want is the very cheapest one you can find. They all will point you to the cache; all the bells and whistles (voice, mapping, color display, compass, etc., etc., etc.) just get in the way.

I'd amend that to say that one bell and whistle you should get is a data port so you can connect it to your PC and do bulk downloads of waypoints. Entering cache coordinates by hand is a major PITA. Plus, if you're like me (and I know that I am) you'll end up getting some of the numbers wrong and you'll end up wandering around the forest hundreds of meters away from where you should be.

dave

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As far as only getting within 30 feet of a box- that depends on tree cover and cloud cover. You can actually get within about 2 feet if it's a nice day.

No, you can't. The GPS satellite system is only accurate to perhaps 15 feet, and the inaccuracy of the GPS the planter used is added to the inaccuracy of the GPS you're using to find it. You can always move around until the indicator tells you you're within 2 feet, but whether the cache is actually right at that spot or 30 feet away is simply random.

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My husband and I will geocache sometimes while were letterboxing, (but I MUCH prefer letterboxing)!

In a typical family, you'll find that the wife/mother prefers letterboxing while the husband and the kids prefer geocaching. I just ran into a family the other day in which the wife/mother was excitedly dragging the family all over the place finding letterboxes, her husband was grudgingly going along and the kids were so bored they were staying in the van and whining. If you are out with your family, do everyone a favor and try both activities so everyone has a chance to discover what they enjoy doing.

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Sorry to have to tell you this, but if you're going to use it for geocaching, the GPS receiver you want is the very cheapest one you can find.

I'd amend that to say that one bell and whistle you should get is a data port so you can connect it to your PC and do bulk downloads of waypoints. Entering cache coordinates by hand is a major PITA.

True enough. Fortunately, the Lowrance iFinder GO has such a data port. It's a bit tricky to use; in fact, anyone trying to use it to bulk load waypoints might want to contact me about how to do it. Officially, Lowrance doesn't even claim the data port is usable by the customer.

The Garmin eTrex has a data port, but may not come with a data cable, and having to buy the cable separately can really affect the cost comparison! I've made my own data cables for both the eTrex and the iFinder GO, simple and cheap to do.

You might also note that both the Garmin eTrex and the Lowrance iFinder GO require a 9-pin serial port to connect the data cable to. My laptop doesn't have a serial port, so I had to purchase a "serial port adapter" that plugs into a USB port from Staples for about $30. If you are using a laptop -- and if you're serious about letterboxing and/or geocaching, your next computer should be a laptop -- the cost of the serial port adapter needs to be figured in for comparison with other GPS models that don't need a serial port. For example, the higher-end models by Lowrance have a removable memory card; you simply remove the card and plug it into a memory card slot on the computer to load waypoints, edit maps, whatever.

Hmmm- I am NOT the GPS expert by any means- my husband is. But, our's will tell us what the accuracy level is when we first turn it on. And, it has been less that 15 feet. As far as the inaccuracy of the both GPS's- that's true. However, we have, on many occasions, been within 2 feet and the cache was right there. That could be totally random, but that seems to happen quite a bit. On other days, we cant get closer than 10 feet, and that is usually when it's cloudy, or there is alot of tree cover.

When my husband and I go "hunting". He loves to read the logbook from the letterbox, while I stamp. And he reads the GPS while I hunt for the cache. We did drag our 15 year old with us one time- and she texted on her cell phone the entire time-LOL! So, definately everyone needs a "job" that they enjoy or else no one will have fun.

my understanding is that the gps gets you to within 30 feet, then you rip up bushes and rocks to find the box.

My GPS unit is accurate to a 10 foot radius (but it's pretty darn sswwweeeeettt :) ). My box-sensing 6th sense usually gets me to the cache (look for hollow trees, hollow stumps, under logs, suspicious pile of rocks, suspicious pile of sticks), and then there's the hint ("stumped yet?", "under the large mossy ledge", "hanging 3 feet up"). I really haven't noticed that geocaching is different from letterboxing in terms of locating the box or environmental damage. I've seen the occassional overturned rock and the occassional tertiary trail develop. Admittedly, in my area, tertiary trails sometimes develop over time because geocaching is popular in these parts and gets more visitors (most caches probably get a visitor a week on average).

The one difference I've noticed with regards to damage is, in geocaching you can post a log on the cache page noting the damage you observed - "the box is hidden in the middle of a trillium patch and I noticed that some of the flowers have been trampled. I think this cache should be temporarily disabled until the trilliums have died back". You can even post a photo of the area to back up your observations. If you're really concerned you can post a "should be archived" log which gets the attention of the reviewer. You can't do that with letterboxing.

I've also noticed in my area, Florida, geocaching is gaining popularity quickly. They have local events more and more frequently, where they combine cleaning up a particular area, with geocaching. Also, alot of schools down here are using this for field trips.

As far as the inaccuracy of the both GPS's- that's true. However, we have, on many occasions, been within 2 feet and the cache was right there. That could be totally random, but that seems to happen quite a bit.

That's been my experience too.

But, we like to take road trips on our motorcycle to find letterboxes- and when we know were going to a nice park, it's fun to grab some geocaches also, (it let's us discover more of the park).

Ahhhh....if I could get my bike cranked, I could talk hubby into taking a bike trip and looking for boxes. Hmmmm....*note to self:must get charger out and charge battery this weekend!!!
:) ::giggling to myself over sneaky thoughts for the weekend::
Dawn

there is a logbook but no stamp

Letterboxes (with a stamp) are also posted on geocaching.com. To find out if there are any letterboxes near you:

• Go to "advanced search" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx
• Choose "letterbox hybrid" from the top drop menu
• Choose "postal code" or "state/county" from the second drop menu
• Click on the "seek" button.

I like the way you think- LOL!!!! You know, we used to just "ride"- no destination really. Since we started letterboxing, riding has taken on a whole new meaning. We plot our trip out- trying to take the back roads because of the scenery and, of course, the safety factor. We always try to find some little diner to have lunch at, if possible. It's a great way to have a "road trip"- unless, of course it rains- LOL!

He loves to just "ride". I have to have a destination or purpose in mind. I have too much to do and too little time to do it. I guess that's the mom part and the dad doesn't have that to worry about.
Dawn

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I really haven't noticed that geocaching is different from letterboxing in terms of locating the box or environmental damage. I've seen the occassional overturned rock and the occassional tertiary trail develop.

There was a letterbox here that had been in place for around 4 years in unused railroad tracks when a Geocache was placed nearly on top of it. The letterbox had nice clues that led right to the box and there was no noticeable damage to the area when I found it. The Geocache was a micro that was nearly impossible to find. The land has been completely devastated since the cache appeared. I wish I had before and after pictures. All the stones have been pulled out under the tracks, the plants are trampled and dead. The old letterbox is now missing.

I know this isn't true for every cache and letterboxers are also guilty of not being specific enough to easily find the boxes, but seeing what one cache can do has me a bit sad about this hobby.

On a happier note, I just noticed that this box has been replaced and the cache has been moved.

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And if you can only get within 30 ft of the box, how do you find it?

That's where your Letterboxing skills come into play. A lot of times, we'll be approaching the area and see a great spot for one only to find out that it's where it is.

Woodsong

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our's will tell us what the accuracy level is when we first turn it on. And, it has been less that 15 feet.

Yes, but it lies. I've seen mine say it was accurate within 9 feet -- and while standing there, not moving, continue to tell me the accuracy was within 9 feet while telling me I've moved 25 feet.

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However, we have, on many occasions, been within 2 feet and the cache was right there. That could be totally random, but that seems to happen quite a bit.

Random. Remember that you're likely to be thinking about where the cache is as you approach the GZ, so odds are actually pretty good that you'll walk towards the actual location. If you are looking at the GPS while doing this, and you get a distance reading of two feet, you're likely to notice it and say "coordinates are right on!" They are, obviously, but if you come back tomorrow they might not be.

Also remember that, when you speak of the coords bringing you to within 30 feet, the odds of the cache being right dead center -- where the GPS says you're within 2 feet -- are better than the odds of it being right at a 30-foot radius. We're all trying to get those coords as accurate as possible, including averaging several readings during placement to try to optimize the randomness. But in the long run, you'll find it's better to just walk to the area where the GPS says the cache is and set the GPS down and start looking rather than trying to move around until it says you're within 2 feet.

Speaking of averaging readings, the Lowrance iFinder GO has a nifty feature that does this automatically. You push a button to start it, and it starts taking readings. It'll keep taking them, perhaps it'll stop at 100, I dunno. But normally it stops when you push the button again, then gives you the average of all the readings it took. For hiding a geocache, this is great, just let it average readings for a minute and you get a very reliable average. I used to spend several minutes doing something similar manually with the Garmin eTrex; just hitting "mark" was notorious for giving a set of coordinates that was a ways off.

The other thing about that averaging feature is you can use it in other ways. For example, you can get it started and then walk all away around a building and then stop it, and the average will give you a point in the center of the building. No need to climb on the roof!

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My GPS unit is accurate to a 10 foot radius (but it's pretty darn sswwweeeeettt :) )

No, it's not. It might claim it is, but it's not -- because it's not possible.

A few technical details: A GPS unit determines your location by noting the distance to three satellites, and it figures out the distance by measuring the time it takes for a signal to get to it. The problem is that the speed of light varies while passing through the atmosphere, and how much it varies depends on weather conditions, sunspots, etc., etc. Anything that causes starlight to flicker affects the accuracy of a GPS. Of course, when it was designed, the intent was to guide bombs and missiles to targets, and within 30 feet was closer than anyone had dreamt of getting, more than good enough!

Then the FAA decided to use the system for guiding airliners. 30 feet is not good enough for landing an airliner, they not only needed better accuracy but they also needed confirmation -- they needed the system to be able to tell them how accurate it was at this particular instant. Hence the WAAS system was added, involving some geosynchronous satellites (waaaaay up there, compared to the GPS satellites which are in low Earth orbits). The way these work is there is a fixed station on the ground at a known location. A GPS receiver at that location checks with the GPS satellites where it is -- but it knows where it is, so it knows how far off the GPS signals are. It then beams a correction up to the geosynchronous satellite, which in turn bounces it back down to all our GPS receivers.

In theory, yeah, the unit can end up very accurate -- in fact, it can get to within centimeters. The problem is that it must be fairly near the WAAS ground station for the correction to have any meaning. The WAAS ground stations are at major airports, not out in the woods near the geocaches! So when your GPS tells you its accuracy is within 10 feet, that's what the accuracy would be if you were at the airport. Presuming you're not at the airport, it's somewhere between there and 30 feet.

You can turn the WAAS correction on or off on the Garmin eTrex. With it on, it seems to go through batteries fast. I always left it on anyway, was looking for optimum accuracy. With the iFinder GO, I'm not sure you can turn it off, no need to, the batteries seem to last forever.

The next generation of GPS satellites is already being launched. There are several improvements, one of which is a signal power increase of about 10x so that you can use your GPS indoors. But another is that the signals will be broadcast on three different frequencies rather than just one. Each frequency is affected by atmospheric conditions differently, and by comparing the time delays it's possible to correct for the atmospheric conditions right where you're standing, no ground stations required. The accuracy is expected to be within a couple of millimeters, rain or shine. The accuracy is expected to be good enough to measure continental drift and fault line stresses reliably.

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Letterboxes (with a stamp) are also posted on geocaching.com. To find out if there are any letterboxes near you:

* Go to "advanced search" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx
* Choose "letterbox hybrid" from the top drop menu

Those are letterbox hybrids, not letterboxes. Good idea, generally poor execution. You're likely to be disappointed.

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You know, we used to just "ride"- no destination really... We always try to find some little diner to have lunch at, if possible.

My brother was a biker, and he and his buddies would do this. They'd set out on their Hondas and Kawasakis and Yamahas and put in a coupla hundred miles, stopping for a nice lunch somewhere.

One time they were joined for a ride by some Harley Davidson riders. All agreed they'd love to go for a ride. Well, about an hour out they pulled into some place for a break and to jabber a bit, and the H-D riders all sat down and ordered beers. An hour later it was evident that the H-D riders had done all the riding they intended to do for the day other than apparently a drunken ride home later that evening. So my brother and his friends got back on their bikes and continued their ride without those guys.

That sounds like fun. Unfortunately, today- the Harley riders tend to stay together. As do, the "crotch rockets". Then of course, there has been a surge in gangs- new and old. We have a Suzuki- and we ususally ride alone or with a couple of others who have Yamahas and Kawasaki's. We dont believe in the gangs and we dont believe that one type of bike is better than another- it's just the way it is now.

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Letterboxes (with a stamp) are also posted on geocaching.com. To find out if there are any letterboxes near you:

* Go to "advanced search" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx
* Choose "letterbox hybrid" from the top drop menu

Those are letterbox hybrids, not letterboxes. Good idea, generally poor execution. You're likely to be disappointed.<

Hi Kirbert,

Surely you're not saying that all letterbox hybrids are poorly executed and will be a disappointment. Critique this letterbox hybrid posted on geocaching.com (the box contains a hand-carved stamp). Here are the clues:

*** The cache is NOT at the posted co-ordinates. ***
Coords take you to the parking location. [Note: clicking on the map provided in the cache page will show you where to park.] The trailhead is up ahead approximately 140m (or less depending where you park along the road).

A letterbox, no trade items. Do not trade out the stamp. Leave it in the box. One of the purposes of a letterbox is to collect rubberstamp images instead of trinkets. I hope you'll join in the fun and bring along your personal letterbox passport/journal (some people like to carry index cards then scrapbook them later).

Directions:

* Park on the road and walk to the trailhead.
* Continue to walk along the path. You will cross over a short boardwalk
* About 70 meters from the boardwalk you will pass another path that travels NW. Next to that path you'll see a tree marked with a faint red arrow.
* Don't take this trail, keep walking about 40 more steps (the trail will curve a bit).
* You'll come to a crossroad in the trail.
* At this point you should see a sapling with a red trail marker.
* Turn left (south)
* Walk a few more meters where you will come to a old gate/fence post marked with a red trail paint splotch. Stop here.
* Take the trail to your left towards the water.
* When you are about mid-point of the reservoir, look to your left, towards the old wire fence.
* You'll see a pink/grey (granite, I think) boulder approximately 4 feet long and 2 feet high. Beside it are a few smaller rocks.
* Look under the smaller pink rock that is directly under the wire fence. (For reference, there's an old fence post approx. 3 meters SW of the rock).

Or this one, which also contains a hand-carved stamp:

A letterbox hidden in a lesser known Mississauga Waterfront Park.

The coordinates are for the parking lot - not recommended between 3 - 7 am. Proceed to the park entrance and look to your left for the bronze park dedication plaque.

From the plaque proceed directly to the fence and then take 68 paces toward the lake along the fence line to the largest deciduous tree. Cache is hidden here. Please rehide as found.

This is a letterbox so there is a stamp pad and stamper, but no trading items. Please leave only your log/stamp. The nearby property likely has security that may not appreciate night cachers, please be discreet.

I have to admit, mine is usually the only non Harley in the group...however, I never have problems with mine. It hardly ever breaks down. We do have one friend that rides a Goldwing. The only reason its not working now is because the battery died while I was pregnant. I have a Suzuki Intruder. What's yours? Have you seen Wild Hogs?

Dawn

We have a Suzuki Intruder also. My husband had it before me- (his 1st Love-LOL). Ours rarely breaks down also. We have looked at trading for a new one- but, no payments is always a plus!! Plus, if it aint broke- why fix it? My husband knows some people in gangs, we get invited to ride with them- but really have noooo desire. Plus, when they here we ride a Suzuki, the "rice burner" comments start. I'm sure you know what I mean!

I LOOOOVED Wild Hogs. Not only was John Travolta looking as good as ever- William H. Macy cracked me up!!! Oh and the doctor from Scrubs who played the cop- I can never remember his name? But, he is hysterical!!

Right after I had my baby, we let him sleep in a bassinet beside our bed and he was such a light sleeper we had to be really quiet. My husband had just bought the movie and I asked him was the language ok for my 5 yr old to watch it with me. He said yes, so we started watching it in my bedroom and we had the sound turned down so low you could hardly hear it. I really couldn't tell much aobut the movie, but my daughter has a huge crush on John Travolta from watching Grease (about 1000 times!) so as long as she could "look" at the movie she was OK. Well....everything is OK until the guy walks out naked!!!! Of course she thought that was hilarious!!! I got up and turned the movie off as quickly as I could not knowing what else was coming! So a week or so later, my mom and my Father in law were eating dinner with us. My FIL is very straight laced and a tad bit on the boring side, My mom is funny and loves to laugh and have fun. So my daughter announces that she watched Wild Hogs and before we could stop her she goes on to tell them about the naked man and that she "saw his naked hiney"! I could;ve crawled under the table!!! Then they started asking what we were letting her watch on TV etc!! Needless to say, she didn't get to finish watching the movie and she is having a fit to finish it!!! I love the scene with William H Macy in the coffee house where the computer pulls up the "wrong site"!!!

Dawn

Too funny! Proves kids really do say the darndest things!!! By the way- your daughter has great taste for being only 5!!!!

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my understanding is that the gps gets you to within 30 feet, then you rip up bushes and rocks to find the box. there is a logbook but no stamp. instead, you get to trade in a piece of junk from a mcdonalds happy meal for another piece of junk in the box.

Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I find this attitude that so many letterboxers seem to have about geocachers childish and, frankly, ignorant. The vast majority of geocachers have a commitment to protecting natural areas. They are there, out in the woods, because they appreciate such places, just like letterboxers. They know (maybe better than letterboxers, who are pretty much under the radar to land managers in comparison to cachers) that damaging natural areas will lead to caching bans on public lands.

As for the quality of trade items, that varies of course. I enjoy stamps and I sometimes enjoy looking at the stuff in a cache. My kids prefer caches because they can trade for trinkets. Sometimes the most trivial piece of "junk" can make a kid's day.

Anyway, I don't get this animosity towards caching. Caching and boxing are more alike than they are different, in my opinion.

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The one difference I've noticed with regards to damage is, in geocaching you can post a log on the cache page noting the damage you observed - "the box is hidden in the middle of a trillium patch and I noticed that some of the flowers have been trampled. I think this cache should be temporarily disabled until the trilliums have died back". You can even post a photo of the area to back up your observations. If you're really concerned you can post a "should be archived" log which gets the attention of the reviewer. You can't do that with letterboxing.

This is a very good point. I really, really wish we at least had the option of having online logs here. I know some boxers don't want online logs. But it would be nice if a box owner could enable it; finders could log or not, just as on the geocaching sites. Overall, I think online logging adds a lot to geocaching - it's fun to read the comments and get more of a shared experience. As noted, it also allows the community to be more responsible in the sense that problems are identified and can be dealt with.

I think online logging adds a lot to geocaching

i use the online logs as "CLUES".

deniserows
and doesn't have a GPS with the arrow :(

As for the quality of trade items, that varies of course. I enjoy stamps and I sometimes enjoy looking at the stuff in a cache. My kids prefer caches because they can trade for trinkets. Sometimes the most trivial piece of "junk" can make a kid's day.

I enjoy seeing what trinkets are in the cache and I wouldnt consider them "junk" by any means. After all, one man's junk is another man's treasure.

I also agree that animosity towards caching is un-called for. Whether you are letterboxing or geocaching- you are still "hunting" a "treasure". I have never had to rip up bushes or rocks to find a cache. What does it matter if it's a stamp, a trinket, or just a logbook to sign? I prefer letterboxing because I love the stamps! I love to carve them and I love to see what other's have carved. But, more importantly, I love the "hunt"! After all, that's what it's all about- right?

I agree with Sailmates. Geocaching and Letterboxing are just two version of the same thing.

Geocaches do not USUALLY rely solely on coordinates. There is also a "clue" provided which is encrypted by default, but you just click a button to decrypt it. The clue is just like letterboxing and may be straight forward or a riddle. The coordinates get you to the approximate location, the clue narrows your search. Having said that, there is an element of "I dare you to find this" on the part of a few geocachers, but these geocaches will be ranked higher on the difficulty scale. Then again, some letterboxes can be like that (I just hid two mystery boxes with no town listed).

I have taken some of my letterboxes and turned them into hybrids. It took a long time to put the boxes together, and really there are only a few letterboxers a year that will see them. Now I get MANY more visitors - mostly geocachers. The response from the geocachers to finding my letterboxes has been quite positive. I get lots of great feedback about the hand-carved stamps - the geocachers really like the stamps. There are no trickets in my boxes (many geocaches actually do not have trickets for trade). I had some microboxes with no logbooks, which geocachers weren't happy about, so they started putting in their own logsheets (just as I have put stamps in some geocaches). One of the microboxes had no ink, so a clever geocacher breathed on the stamp until he was able to get the old ink on the stamp to work. I've been invited out for chicken wings and beer, too.